Navigating Interracial Relationships and Shared Experiences

(Music)

Oh my god. We're doing it. We're finally doing this. We're doing it.

We haven't actually been talking about it for that long. And we're doing it.

Yeah, but the fact is

that we're doing it and people say things. You sent me a text and you said let's do this thing.(...) And I had to read the text and like a couple times to make sure that like they were real and look at us now. We're doing this.(...) We've got this whole

(...)

like background and lights and all the things.

We have a whole set up. And we have Prosecco to celebrate. So let's start with

that.

Cheers.

(...) Congratulations to us.

Congratulations to us. We're doing it. We're doing it.(...) So why are we here? What was the idea? Like where did you come up with this? Why did I get that text that day?

(...)

I think it was, I don't know. I have these like downloads sometimes where I'm like, this would just be so much fun. And like it would be interesting.(...) We could potentially have enough things to talk about and

potentially. Yeah,

potentially, you know, well, we're going to get into it, but we don't know each other that well. We know each other a little bit, but not that well. Yeah.

(...)

So there's also that piece of like we're still getting to know each other, which is going to be cool because we're going to like broadcast it.

(...)

Share it with everybody.

This is going to be real time. But anyway,(...) yeah, so I got this idea of Blindie and Brown girls, like the idea of being in an interracial relationship and having that be such a unique experience and in and of itself, that's an experience.

(...)

But then you layer on top of it other people that are also having a similar experience and to be able to talk about our lives in a way that's outside of the context of our lives. Right. Like we for us to just be like, actually, we're just real people and we're having a lot of similar experiences to what a lot of women are experiencing.(...) But then on another level, we're having a different experience,

A completely different experience at the same time. And I think for us too, you know, having children from these relationships adds a whole another layer and context for us of awareness and of, you know, just stuff. You got to navigate through, you know, on top of like you said, just life's regular things. Like I think we both know what we do know about each other. It's over the same age. (Laughing)

we're born the same year.

We're born the same year. So, you know, also as you get older. Ask Tanya to move the pillow. So much more conscious of the, you know, one that it's hard to make friends, right? It's hard to meet new people.

(...)

And it's hard to meet people and connect and find things to connect on as you get older.(...) And it was interesting for us, you know, we didn't know this piece when we connected. Totally. And we found it shortly after we figured it out. And now we're here doing this. So clearly it

was meant to be. Yeah, it was a big connector.(...)

But you know, there's so many pieces of our lives that can connect with so many different people. So I think that that's a great reason to just sit here and get to know each other in front of everybody. Because, you know, through our experience, so many people can connect with each other as well,

Right. So many different

aspects of themselves and with the people around them.

Yeah, absolutely.

I had this idea and then I was like, oh, let me see what Chad GPT things around this and honestly, like I've done this with ideas before like I'll just put it in and see what it comes up with and it came up with a list of like 11 things and every single one I was like, yeah, I would totally want to talk about that. Yeah, I want to talk about that too. I want to talk about that too. And I was like, this is something. Like there's something to this and I completely I didn't expect it. I I've had other friends being like, oh, we should start a podcast. And I was like, yeah, totally. I'd love to do that with you, but it's never felt so like, oh, wow. Like this would be amazing. You know what I mean? Like that level of energy I've never had.

That's so fun. That's so fun. And then when I received the text, like I said, I was like, she's serious?

(...)

(Laughing)

Literally what you said back to me. I was like, are you serious? I was like, yeah, I wasn't

oh, well it's on my plan for: 2024

Yeah. Yeah. And I love that. Like I honestly, I invited two of you guys, the other person. She's like maybe going to join us sometimes. We'll see. It's still in the waiting.

(...)

But like I really felt like we could actually have things to talk about that personally, I don't I I don't have the time to like see friends all the time. Right. So I want to be having conversations regardless.

(...)

We got when we got together here the first time before the studio is ready

(...)

and we talked for like two and a half hours, not soft,

Which we did not record.

which we didn't record. Damn it. I know. This is what we learned. We're the same age.

Yes.

(...)

And then we had so much to talk about. We were going in

the 80s.

Yes, 80.(...) (Laughing)

To be specific.

(...) (Laughing) I think the eighties kind of pushes us in the middle and--

I was trying. I was not sure. I tried.

I tried. But you know what, I think that's a part of what is awesome about doing this too is like, you know,

(...)

I forget how old I am sometimes. And I forget what's possible, you know, just how much life has happened and how much life there is still to go. Being at this sort of, I don't know, mid point, which, you know, is just occurring to me that that's what this is, you know, really, I'm starting to come to terms a little bit more with, not age, because age like to me is literally just numbers, as cliche as it is to say, but you know, just coming to terms with like, there is a finale, right? There is a finale, right? And we kind of don't know where that is. So like, do the thing, have the fun, share the experiences,

Yeah, like what are we waiting for? Yeah, and and like honestly, I feel like now in my life. I am grateful that there's so much more that I can do. Whereas if I tried to do this in my 20s, it's an idea that I would have had whatever but it wouldn't have been the same. It wouldn't have been this level, right? Like, oh, maybe we can like record our phone

calls.

(...)

Well,

Well then again, 20 year old these days are doing

this. True, that's fair. On our track, right? Like this and beyond.

We had cell phones, but we didn't have much. We really didn't, I mean. No,

our 20s. Yeah, not a

a chance. So yeah, no, it's awesome to be able to do this. We are, you know, still feeling our way through it though. We're trying to figure out which direction we're gonna go. We have so many ideas. We know that there's sort of endless things that we can talk about as it pertains. So like you were saying, relationships, being in interracial relationships,

(...)

being mothers, being working mothers, being women, being, you know,

having children with different two different identities, two

Two different identities, yep. I mean, for me also having two children with, from two different relationships, which is something that, you know, is common, but culturally not, right? So that's just something that I think we need to be talking more about as the world evolves to be a different place than the place that we grew up.

that's a little bit of the backstory.

So you recently transplanted to Texas.

(...)

Um, what brought you guys out here?

(...)

So

me ago. And I left fashion in: 2018

years. Totally. Especially for that. Yeah. Like the

careers that we had and also just having had another child recently when we both have older children,(...) we're like, do we really wanna do this again in New York? Sure, yeah. Is this, you know, we're getting older, is this how we wanna do it? When we recognize, so his dad has a second home in Savannah, Georgia, and we went to Savannah for Christmas, I think, in 21. Yeah. And on our way back to New York, we got stuck in an ice storm on the I-95 in Virginia and had to sleep on the highway in our car overnight. No, stop. Like they had shut down the highway. There were thousands of cars and trucks stuck in ice and we were there, no, like nothing, no cops, no service, no phone service, nothing overnight on the I-95. Oh my God.(...) We were there for about 20 hours.

(...)

And when we finally started moving the next day, and you know, this was the two year old, and I mean, it was beyond-- Agree-o. Yes, it was.

(...)

We were blessed because we had a full tank of gas. We just kinda anticipated that we needed to fill up and we had a car full of snacks because we were on a road trip driving back from Savannah up to New York.(...) And so as we're driving back up, we're like, why are we doing this? We just came from Savannah, it's 80 degrees,(...) you know, there's space, there's amenity, there's access, like why are we doing this? And that's when we decided to move. So it wasn't Savannah for us, even though we love Savannah.

And it wasn't Atlanta. And it wasn't Atlanta. We,

We did consider it, especially because Ty's sons both go to school and both in college in Atlanta. But he had been to Houston, he has a cousin that lives in Houston. I had been to Houston many times. I didn't know much about it outside of like, I used to be in River Oaks and that's like

a, as we know now, a tiny little section. It's really not much of anything.

It's the Ritz's of Houston. Yes. And it's, you know,

you know, I used to work in luxury fashions, you

Don't forget.

(...)

But, you know, I started doing research and I discovered that Houston is the most diverse, racially and ethnically diverse city in the United States, which I was blown away by, I had no idea. You know, people assume it's New York. What I like to say about New York, which many people like to say about New York is that, you know, it really is, it's like, people stay in their pockets, right?(...) There are, you can find everything, but everybody's truly in their pockets. So it's more segregated than integrated and Houston feels very integrated. So that was one of the big reasons that we chose Houston was the diversity. It was the amenity, like we have everything here. You know what I mean? You have all the sporting events, all the concerts, all the things,

the weather.

(...)

the

weather was a big one

and it's a great city for kids. So, and the cost of living, like let's not get it twisted. Cost of living coming from New York. We were like, where can we go? Where our money actually means something.(...) And here we are

sitting next to you. So how'd you get

(...)

Really similar actually.(...)

so I had an office back in Berkeley, which was a physical office where I saw patients and did all that usual stuff. And the overhead on that office was so high that I knew that once that contract was over, I was done. And then COVID happened and our landlord, instead of like what most people did was like, Oh, you can stop paying us. He was like, well,(...) you're going to keep paying me or you're going to pay the hundred grand that you owe me when you like bail on your contract.

What?

(...)

really thick headed landlord kind of situation.

(...)

And so for two years, the first two, like year and a half or so of COVID, I had an office that I never use.

Oh my goodness, that's so frustrating.

It's very painful.(...) But in the process, like COVID really accelerated the vision that I had always had, which was I would love to not need a physical location. I want to be traveling. I wanted like see the world, right?(...) I don't know that I actually still believe this, but

at one point I was like, Oh, I'm going to be the backpack parent. Like put my kid back there. That was my vision when I was in my twenties.

(...)

So I was like, Oh yeah, like let's do this. Well, I want to have the lifestyle that I want living wherever and being able to do what I do, but doing it from wherever. Yeah. So COVID made that very real

no one expected me to come see them in person.(...)

we had been talking. I was like, like contract's gonna end soon. Where do we wanna go? Let's plan this out. So we had a year to like really think about things.

(...)

And one of the first things my husband said was, oh, let's go to Texas. And I was like, oh God, no, Texas.

(...)

I have way too bougie for doctors.

(...)

not true.

(...)

And then little did I know, like

there's so much energy

many bougie. There's so much bougie in Texas.

(...)

(Laughing) I can't do,

can't, I like, I never even knew this type of fusion. So anyway, that's besides the point. That's me being ignorant.

(...)

And then we went to Atlanta because one of our top priorities outside of cost of living was diversity. So Atlanta is supposedly super diverse.

(...)

I saw diversity. Like there's lots of different people, but it was very segregated.

It felt like,(...)

Yeah. It was very like, Oh, this is a white neighborhood and this is the black neighborhood and people don't like cross and intermingle and even like the major downtown mall. I don't remember what it was called.

Lennox.

You spent

spent a lot of time in

Yes. So Lennox mall

we just like sat there for a couple of hours and people watched.

(...)

And what we realized was like, there were so many people and so such diversity, but literally every group was segregated amongst that diversity. And I felt like it was a weird,(...) like, where am I? Like there's the white group and the Indian group and the black group and the Mexican group, like, and there were no intermingled, frightening groups. So that to me was a little bit like, sure, we shouldn't make our whole judgment on one thing, but

that's kind of turned off. I was like, I'm good. I'm not sure. I'm feeling it. And then we went to Austin because I was like, well, where else is affordable and diverse?(...) And then Austin didn't cut it. Like it's really popular for Californians to move to Austin, but I was like, well, I don't know if I like the vibe. Like it's okay. It's not a terrible place to live, but it's all like, wow, this is amazing.

(...)

And then months passed by, we didn't make a decision. And then finally someone said, oh, have you considered Houston? And I was like, no, we have not. So we started watching videos about Houston and we actually like went in thinking, oh, we've got to figure it out. We know exactly the neighborhood that we're going to live in. It was basically off of YouTube videos. Like we were never visiting in outside of Houston, like the little suburb. And it's called Sugarland.

(...) Very well. So it was

sold so well in these YouTube videos. We're like, yep, we're going to Houston and then we're going to move to Sugarland. And we landed and a week later we were in Sugarland and I was like,

oh my God, no.(...)

Really, I love Sugarland. Oh my goodness, I love Sugarland. Just

energy felt weird and I don't know what it was. Like it wasn't anything in particular. It just felt very suburbia.(...) It is very suburbia. And not that we don't live in suburbia now, but it feels somehow more like two miles, a mile and a half to most things

around here. I wonder where you were in Sugarland because Sugarland is not that way. Oh really? Yeah, Sugarland is actually, you know, what we have here in Cyprus, even bigger. Like the Sugarland Town Center is way bigger. Like way more people, way more green space, way more kids like it. That's fair. Sugarland has a lot of really cool energy.

We could be there now, but I think the neighborhood that we were in was just like not the thing.(...) So that was done. And then we're like, well, we don't know where. We really like the heights. So we almost stayed in the heights. I fell in love with this house, this epic house.

(...)

And I was like, we must have this house. And then our mortgage didn't come through and we lost the house. Oh no. And then every house that we looked at in the heights and just was like, but it's not the Darling house. It was on Darling Street. I still know the street. I know the address to that place is loaded. We now have friends that like literally live a block away from that house. Oh no way.

(...)

Yes.

(...)

But it never, it didn't work out. And then every house was just a comparison. This is not it. This is not it. This is not it. And then finally my husband was like, okay, maybe we just need to step out of the heights because this is a little too much.

(...)

And then he landed in Cyprus somehow. He was like, I really like Cyprus. You should go check out Cyprus.

(...)

And again, this is not the best way to like pick a place to live. But so I came up to

and I was like, I'm just going to work in a cafe for a day and see what it's like.(...) And got a pretty good vibe of the people. And I was like, yeah, actually like this.

Then I was headed home and

And I literally like pulled over. I was like, what is this place? And like literally there's a lake house on the lake, on the water. I was like, what is this place? So I go in and I was like, what's happening here? You have houses?(...) So cheap?(...) And she's like, not the ones on the lake. Those are millions of dollars. I was like, oh, darn. But it's so nice. Yeah, it's so pretty. It's so pretty. And they gave me like, oh, come by for a boat ride. So I came home. I was like, oh, we should take Avery for a boat ride.(...) And we did this boat ride. And for weeks he was like, can we go on the boat? Can we live on the boat?(...) Can we just stay there? We really like the lake, don't we? And so he was just like so obsessed.(...) I was like, OK, we need to move around here somewhere. And then like this was the first house we saw.

saw.

Oh, wow. It was literally

the

one and only in

Yeah, our

house buying story was not quite

easy.

(...)

But we bought and then we renovated for two months. And now I love my house. But we're not too far away. You're like 50 minutes

And so it's interesting that we both ended up here. We too, well, when we moved here, we lived down South in Siena, just South of Sugarland. So we spent a lot of time in Sugarland, which is why maybe I know Sugarland a little bit differently. But we thought we would stay down there, but something told me, I don't know, there's something

told me. We were meant to meet.

Because you

listen,

I wasn't going to drive an hour to do a

podcast. No, you wouldn't. And I wouldn't either. Honestly, we would have probably done a virtual something.

Which wouldn't have been the same. It wouldn't have been the same. Yeah, we couldn't be drinking Prosecco like right next to each other. And we need to get the bottle.

(...)

(Both Laughing)(...)

The thing that I've noticed after moving to Cyprus, which I am completely blown away by, is the amount of diversity, not only in the aspect of variety and people from all over, but really that integrated diversity, which I never even knew was a thing.(...) But the number of interracial couples, the number of Black and Indian couples specifically,

(...)

is really, really high.

Yeah, that's something that I didn't expect for sure. I

grew up in Toronto, which is considered, you know, the, if not one of the most multicultural cities in the world. And I remember growing up and my experience was this level of diversity and integration. So for me, this was always very, very normal, right? And then I moved from Toronto to New York and the story is that New York is that way. And like I said, New York is not that way. And I happened to live in neighborhoods in New York because somehow I always ended up with boyfriends and partners, my ex-husband, my current partner, everybody was born and raised in New York. I only ever dated New Yorkers. And you know, New York is a place that people come from everywhere. So it's easy for you to meet someone who's also not from there. Somehow I only ended up with people from New York. So it was cool though, because by virtue of that, I got to see different neighborhoods because they got family everywhere, right? So we're driving out to Long Island, we're driving into parts of Jersey, we're driving deep in Queens. So I also lived in areas that most people who moved there wouldn't live.

(...)

Also because I grew up in Toronto and I grew up in a very West Indian neighborhood, I'm very comfortable in certain environments that some people might not be. So I've just seen diversity differently(...) and I have not seen that in any other US city(...) like I have in Houston. And that just blows me away, the level of integration. Like that part, I think is the most important part. I agree. Being in a, like your kid's classroom has kids from everywhere and then you realize, oh, wait a second, the parents are mixed race. And the parents are actually friends with each other and people from different races talk.

(...)

It's even so basic. And so I grew up in Jersey and I feel like there was diversity. It wasn't so integrated in the form of interracial couples, but it

was also like so long ago.

So there was that aspect. But I feel like so many, there was a lot of different variety of people in my classrooms. And I never, well, there's plenty of racism. We can talk about that. But it never felt awkward or weird or like, oh, I can't find anyone that looks or talks like me or whatever.

(...)

But this level of integrated diversity is just like the biggest surprise and also the thing that I'm so grateful for. To randomly find this suburb in Houston that is just next level. Like even the city proper, I feel like where we were in the Heights, it felt diverse, but not to this level.

No, I think there's a lot in Houston at least there's a lot more diversity in the suburbs for sure. Like Sugarland is crazy diverse. Here is crazy diverse. Pearland crazy diverse. You know, like really it's everywhere. The bigger suburban communities. I don't even know how to talk like that. I'm still learning how to talk in these suburban terms. I'm like, what do you mean? Like 42nd Street? What are you talking about?

(...)

But, you know, these

neighborhoods are so beautifully mixed. I mean, you have on your own block people from literally everywhere and it's cool. I mean, my neighborhood is a little different. So it's very different for me because our neighborhood happens to be predominantly white

(...)

and older and that has been a trip for us because we are not those people. And we lived in Brooklyn where across the street there was a DJ, Ty is a DJ in my house and the people behind us were having sofa parties till two a.m. So, I don't know that started at two a.m. not till two a.m. That started at two a.m. And that's what we- Let's go. That was our world, that was our life. And so suburban older white folks for us is really, really different. But I will say that it has been a pleasant surprise. I have had to face some of my own internal bias because I have realized that, wait, I'm placing judgment on these people. I'm making assumptions about how they're gonna react to me and my family and they're not reacting like that. In fact, they're so nice. And I'm the one who's not in some cases. And so it's actually been a really interesting experience. So, I mean, yes, our neighborhood itself is not super duper diverse, like our few blocks, but outside of that is crazy diverse.

(...)

But I think it ended up like that for us for a reason too. Like I think we needed to experience this type of environment as well, especially coming from New York, where literally where we lived,

(...)

we had a beautiful house. It was people said, "Oh, you moved for space." No, we didn't move for space. We moved because we had space, but we also had crack heads outside our space that we couldn't do anything about. Where we had just like people blocking our driveway, the UPS truck for two hours, because there's nowhere to park and you can't double park and it's a one-way street and it's too narrow for anyone to pass and you can't. Now you can't park in your own driveway and you've got a sleepy kid and just like that part of the lifestyle. Yeah, that sounds awful. It was awful. It was hard. Oh God, that sounds so rad. And it was not a cheap house. You know what I mean? Totally, for like the amount of money that you got from selling that house, I'm sure this is like night and day. Oh yeah, it's night and day for sure. I mean, interest rates are not helping right now, but-- Even with that, I'm sure it's not crazy. No, it's not. And that makes a difference too, right? And the quality of life they're able to live. And we made it work there, but I feel like that's what a lot of people end up having to do is just you make it work. And we were tired of just making it work. Yeah, no, I feel like, I lived in California for 15 years and it never, and even there, like I lived in the city for a long time and then I moved to the suburb and finally like got a small place.

(...)

It was small, it was like two bedrooms, which was fine for one person, but once you have a partner and a baby and the baby screaming in the middle of the night, it's just not fun anymore.

(...)

Well, that's number one, no matter how much space you have. It's really, yeah. And if you're like, we had our office in our bedroom because there was nowhere else to work. And then both of us are working from home, we tried a new meeting, it was a nightmare. Yeah, there was something in there. It's amazing that we made it through that.

(...)

So it was really that, but I think the other piece is really when people are in a place where they have to work really hard at surviving, it feels exhausting in so many ways, right, like you are working so that you can pay off your house so that you can live in the place that you're living and send your kids to the schools. It just feels like a lot. And I remember multiple times thinking, wow, everyone's always just so busy, right? Like people got, and here too people are busy, like that's not, I'm not saying we're not, but it's a different level. Like it doesn't feel like, oh my God, it doesn't feel as desperate. Yes. Yeah, like it doesn't feel as like for survival, right? It feels a little bit more by choice here,

(...)

not out of obligation and out of survival and not out of like, if I don't, someone else can come for my job. Like here they take Fridays off, Friday traffic starts at 11 a.m.

(...)

I'm like, are you coming or are you going? I remember what was happening.

(...)

Like it's totally a much more laid back vibe for sure. But we're asking each other questions. I've got your question. Okay.

(...)

And I wanna ask you this question pretty soon. Okay.

(...)

You good? Yeah, go for it. Okay, so you are like an OG Blindian. What the heck is that? For all the people out there that are like, what's a Blindian?

(...)

So a Blindian is a couple, a relationship that involves black people and Indian people or South Asian people really, right? So anybody from the South Asian diaspora.

(...)

earing of that term in around: 2011

(...)

However,(...) why do I need to try anything else if that's just what has happened organically in my life? And I didn't put a filter on black men only.(...) And it's interesting because my experience in childhood was very different than that. My experience in childhood,(...) I didn't have many black friends. Even though I lived in a very black neighborhood, I grew up in black neighborhoods. And so it was very comfortable and very integrated. But I went to school outside of my neighborhood. I went to school downtown Toronto, I went to a French school. So I had a completely different school experience than lived experience at home. But my environment was still my environment.(...) And so I've been doing this thing, this blend in thing for, I think 27, 28 years now, since

(...) Both my children are from two different blend in relationships and people think that's,

(...)

they have a lot of opinions about it, let's put it that way.

(...)

I don't even think twice about it, it is just my story. We'll, I'm sure talk about that more at some point. But yeah, it's, I guess,

(...)

there's not a lot of people that I meet who have had that history that I've had.

(...)

1996, there was nobody to talk to about it. There was no social media, there was no books, there was no resource, there was no friends, right? In my community though, I will say,(...) there were other Indian girls who were either dating black men or, you know, there was some of it, a little bit, a little sprinkling of it going on, but never, you know, marriage and such things. But by the time I became in a relationship with my first boyfriend, who was Jamaican,(...) I had a couple of friends who were also in relationships with black men, like Indian friends. So I never felt alone in my experience, but it was certainly not a widespread thing, right? For sure.

(...)

But yeah, we'll talk about, I'm sure we will dive in one day to like, you know, the parental stuff and all that stuff. Oh gosh. I also work with a lot of clients who,

(...)

who this is their story, right? Like they're in their 20s, they're in their 30s, they're even in approaching 40s and having trouble, you know, sharing their relationship with their families, with their extended families, just because their partner is black. So I can't believe that that's still what's happening today. But-- It's kind of nuts because(...) like Indian, I don't know, is it Indians or is it like all people from Asia, like different parts of Asia, right? Japanese, Chinese, whatever. I feel like being South Asian, there was such a rhetoric of you cannot marry a black man. Like that was over and over and over. And it was like,(...) I don't think I've seen, I haven't had any felt experience of something so deeply ingrained in me at least, like in our family, like, I was like, why are you even telling me this? What's your problem? I'm 13 years old, go away dad. You know, like-- There's just such a-- It's such a weird experience. It's a fear, I think based on ignorance. When I say ignorance, it's not, you know, it's truly not knowing, you know? It's having their narrative defined by the media and the media as we know, isn't very kind to black people. And so, you know, I think that they,

(...)

there's such a divide, there's a distance. Most of these Indian people have no association with black people, right? Like maybe in a service provider type of way, but who have you actually had a conversation with? Like who have you actually talked to? Like outside of work. (Laughing) And even then at work, like you talking to them because you have to, not because you want to, right? And I will say my experience with that was different. Like my parents never explicitly said that to me.

(...)

I wasn't supposed to date anybody. Black, white, purple, no, whatever. That too, we will definitely talk about that.

(...)

And for me, I think I was hearing the Muslim, no louder than the black no. I think maybe also because the black no felt very removed from reality.(...) Whereas the Muslim no was closer in,(...) as a chance, meaning like,

(...)

there were a lot of Indian girls, Indian young men who were starting to get with, and again, we're all, yeah, Pakistan, whatever it was. You know, we were first generation, right? So people, so-- Oh, you're brown. You're still brown. That's pretty good. You're still brown. Oh, you grew up down the block, you're still brown, we good, right? That's what you're thinking, but you know, then you're realizing, okay, there's racial dynamics, there's religious dynamics, there's all this other stuff. So I didn't feel like, okay, I can't date a black, I was just like, I can't date nobody.

(...)

So it didn't really for me occur to me that, oh, this is gonna be a problem(...) just because he's black.

(...)

And it was,(...) but it also, for me,

(...)

I'm an only child, so there were just different expectations. And then, you know, we had to navigate that for quite a while, but here I am, 27 years later. You survived all that. Survived all of it, and still doing it.

(...)

Still doing it. Okay, well, I have another question for you.

(...)

How did you get into the field of work that you're in? How did you decide that this was going to be your specialty? Yeah,(...) that's a very interesting story, actually.

(...)

So I was married to this man who-- This man, he's never good. I was married to this guy, really is what I would say. I was married to one of those who wants to contact him, a guy. A guy.(...) And we had been in a relationship for a super long time.

(...)

He was a good person.

(...)

Let's just start there.

(...)

And every time he mentioned or started talking about having children, my uterus would literally be like,

(...)

(Screams) and I was like, oh crap, what's happening? Do I not want to have kids? Because that was a real possibility. I had never even thought it through.(...) And I was like, shoot, I'm pretty close to 30 here. What's happening? Do I want to have kids? I need to figure this thing out.

(...)

And everything that I had learned in medical school was fertility dropped some of a cliff at 35.

(...)

So I was like, well, I'm getting pretty close to that age. It's taken me 26 years or something to find this person.

(...)

And like now what? What are we doing?(...) And it took a few months. It was about nine months that I was in this feeling torn, not really knowing, do I want to have children? Do I not want to have children? Do I want to have children with him? Is my uterus screaming because of him and not the children thing? Right, right, yeah. So it took a little bit of exploration going inwards just trying to figure out like, what is the intuition? What is my body telling me? And I came to,(...) it was him.

(...)

Yes, I really want to have children, but no, absolutely not with this person.

(...)

And then there was another O'Shit because now like an Indian person getting a divorce, like what's up? Right. Right? And we had only been married at that point. When we separated, we'd only been married 18 months.

(...)

So all of this is literally like our first year of marriage. I'm going through all of that.(...) And I was very thrown off kind of like not fully understanding what, like why had my intuition guided me in this way?(...) But I was like, okay, well, here I am. And I'm going to do what's right for me through whatever, like Indian, not Indian, whatever is going to have to go.

(...)

I would rather disappoint my family and be judged by people than live in a relationship that wasn't the right relationship.(...) And it was really clear that if I ever wanted to have a child, I needed to be done with that relationship.

(...)

So I kind of was like, okay, well, this is happening. I got to separate. And so all that is happening in my personal life. And simultaneously,(...) I am going to this business coaching program that was like, find a niche. And literally every time this guy on stage would say niche, my body would be like fertility.

(...)

And I was like, what is this? Like go away. I don't even know if I like babies.

(...)

Like that's the point at which I was like, this is so weird. And then, so I kept hearing it from both sides and simultaneously, like I'm knee deep in research because I was like, I'm gonna figure this out. Screw this whole like medical system that's telling me I can't, I will.

(...)

something that started in the: 1800

(...)

So every part of my being was like, are you serious right now? Like this is where it originates.

(...)

There are plenty of studies out there that support this myth, but there are almost no studies done in like a way to actually prove the opposite. So there are some studies coming out now that are like very small scale, but they've done these studies and what they've found is women between 25 and 29 versus women between 35 and 39,

(...)

and what they found was there's a 3% drop off from the 35 to 39 age group, then the 25 to 29 age group. That's it? 3%. 3%.(...) 3%.(...) We've been sold some bullshit story all this time. Yes. Yeah. So I didn't have to be a geriatric pregnancy?

(...)

Oh my God, don't get me started. Do not get me started.

(...)

And I actually called my OB on that because I was a geriatric pregnancy as well.(...) And I said to her,

(...)

do you actually say this to patients or are you just saying it to me? And she's like, no, we're required by the law to tell you that you're geriatric. Oh yeah.(...) What? It was like the first thing in bold letters on my file. It was like geriatric. I was 39 years old.

(...)

I'm feeling pretty damn great. And you're telling me that I'm geriatric? Not just older, but geriatric. Right, yeah. And she was like, oh, but you're healthier than my 18 year old. I'm like, yeah, damn straight bitch. Like, why would you call me geriatric? And she's like, Such a problem. Oh, it's just the way that we have to do it because you're high risk,(...) because of your age and high risk. I'm like, okay, whatever. I don't know if I'm going to answer it. Is that true? (Both Laughing)

(...)

There are lots,(...) scientifically speaking, there are lots of potential complications of pregnancy that go up as we age. And that is true. These are potential complications of everything that go up as we age. Right, absolutely. It's just like natural process.

(...)

It's age. But I think also, like we have people,

(...)

I just literally had a 48 year old have a baby. A 48 year old have a baby. And it was like two months ago. So like supporting her through that process. And she did IDF, but the fact that she's having a baby at 48 is unheard of.(...) Bring it back to her relationship question. And she ended up just kind of like,

(...)

going through this process in such a beautiful way.(...) And she literally like bounced back to her pretty pregnancy way in months. Wow. Not, sorry, not months, like weeks. I talked to her like six weeks after she gave birth and she was like, oh yeah, I feel great. I lost like 30 pounds and pam pam pam pam pam. And I was like, what? This is amazing.(...) So, and she had no complications,(...) but the difference is she was, I truly believe that so much of aging is reversible

(...)

and preparing your body for what you're about to go through, which is a marathon.

(...)

Preparing your body like puts you in a different position than going into a marathon without knowing anything about that marathon. Of course, makes sense. And preparing for it and training and doing all the things that make you prepared to run that marathon. Yeah, that set you up. Yeah. So it's kind of what we do is like all those women between 40 and 40, usually it's like 44, 45 is kind of our average.

(...)

All of those women do go on to have healthy babies and without most of them, without any complications. That's amazing.(...) And I think it's part of it is like just that training and like making sure that their body's ready, making sure that they're fully nourished. Yeah, like optimizing the conditions, right? Like as you would for,(...) as we do for everything else, right? We just forget to do that for our bodies and for the things that we just assume are supposed to happen naturally, but we forget that taking care of ourselves is also a natural process. We fucked that up. Yeah, we forgot to take care of ourselves. We forgot that part. We forgot that part. Yeah. All right, so that is why you do what you do. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I was enraged by the lies that we had been felt a little bit like you and like the more I was talking to women about it, the more I was being interviewed on podcasts and stuff like that. And like people would just ask me like, what are you researching and what are you working on? And I would just share what I just shared. And people were literally like everybody calling me like, you're gonna help me get pregnant. And I was like, oh God, no, it's just my research. Like this is just a project, you know? They're like, no, really, like we think you could actually help us.

(...)

And the first person that I took in as a fertility patient, she had three years of infertility, three miscarriages. I remember it like she was yesterday.

(...)

And she's calling me on the phone on Friday afternoon. And I said to her,

(...)

I have never actually successfully helped anyone get pregnant. All of my stuff is theoretical

(...)

and it's gonna be expensive. Like this is not gonna be a cheap experience.

(...)

And if you really wanna do this, go check in with your intuition and come back on Monday.

(...)

And she was just like, this is weird. Like watch out, like this is so weird.

(...)

And she calls me like Monday morning, 8 a.m. Literally the phone rang and I was like, don't tell me it's her. So I'm checking out the phone. And she's like, so you're literally the weirdest doctor I've ever met,(...) but we'll do it. Wow. And I was like, oh, it's real now.(...) Like I have to do this now. That's really daunting. I can relate to that.

(...)

Again,(...) theoretically, you know that you can help. You know you know things. You know that there's guidance that you can share, but doing it and wanting people to get the results. Wanting to make sure that people are getting what they came for. How do you ensure that?(...) How do you make that happen? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's a scary place to go. Oh my God.(...) And so she had that conversation and I was like, okay, great, my first opening is next week. Just to like give me a little bit of time.

(...)

And that day I like sat down with this huge paper, roll of paper. Like I remember just having a giant paper and like mapping out all of the things that had been researching the stuff I had figured out, the stuff that I was like, oh, there's gotta be a solution for that. Just like putting it all on a piece of paper.(...) And by the end of it, I was on the ground just like weeping. Oh my God. Because I was like literally everything in my life has led to me doing this. Like I couldn't, I didn't know it was that, right? Like I had no idea, but everything that I've been learning and training and like developing within myself is all It's for this. Co-hosting for this. That's amazing. Like that moment was just like so epic because.(...) I can like picture it like a movie scene.

(...)

Yeah, like that would be a cool movie. Yeah, yeah, I can like totally picture it.(...) Yeah, I just, I couldn't believe it. And like as soon as I saw that and had like, like I don't know where this came from, I call it a download, essentially like spirit telling me.

(...)

And it was the map of how we take people through our process

(...)

and that too was like, what is this? Like what does it all mean?(...) And it was this like beautiful, simple, but customizable process to get people through their journeys. And I was like, okay, this is what we do. Let's see what happens.

(...)

So patient one, number one got pregnant, patient number 10,(...) 20, like people were just getting pregnant. So that year was like the peak. That's amazing. Literally everyone that year got pregnant. That's so amazing. And it's not always gonna be that way.(...) Of course, of course. But it was like, I felt like it was spirit just be like, this is your thing. Like you are meant, you are put here. This is what you're doing.(...) You need to like do it. And you need to like gain that confidence so quickly.

(...)

Oh, and then I forgot in that first year, I ended up at a acupuncture clinic. One of my friends called me up and he was like, hey, so our naturopathic doctor just quit. Can you like come fill in for us for a little while till we like find someone and train someone else? And I was like, okay, sure. He runs this like low income clinic. And I was like, cool, no problem. I'm happy to help you out. And I get there and the head acupuncturist was like, oh, it's you. I heard you on a podcast. Did you do all this fertility research? And I was like, yeah. She's like, fertility is my specialty. And I've got like a hundred cases sitting on my shelf that need help. Go at it. Look at it. Wow.(...) Look at that, that's serendipity. Wow. It was like, oh my God, is this really happening? And I was like, no, I have this whole process and they need to work with me for a long time. And blah, blah, blah. I started to talk her out of it. And she's like, well, can you just take a look? Cause it's been years. They're not getting pregnant. Like something needs to shift.(...) And they all got pregnant.(...) And that's what I was like, oh my God. This is incredible. That's amazing. Yeah.

(...)

So that is the fertility story. That's a great story. I love that story. It's a great story. And you can tell how passionate you are about it, right? Yeah. It's been 14 years. It's a long time. Yeah.(...) It's crazy. It's a lot of pregnant ladies.(...) I've been doing it for this long. It's crazy.(...) Cause nothing keeps my interest for 14 years.(...) Yeah. It's gotta be, you know, there's gotta be so much reward from it, right? For you. Yeah. That keeps you going. Absolutely. Like I think it's seeing, I used to be addicted to the dopamine rush from people getting pregnant. Like that was my rush. That's so sad to say, but it was enthralling for a long time.

(...)

And then I,

(...)

like in the last five or six years, I've come to this place of like, I'm not gonna be attached to the outcome because as much as there's a rush when it's positive, there's like a crash and burn when it's a negative. Yeah. And I was like, okay. So my spiritual growth is in finding that middle point. Like how do I stay even regardless of where it goes?

(...)

And so what I came to was like, okay, there's something deeper. Like what else is happening under the surface that no matter what their outcome, they still had a positive outcome. That's right. So benefit.(...) And that, like I found the place where, people are literally transformed every single day. And like they consider them very minor wins, right? Like, oh, my period pain went away or my hormones are better or I don't break out. I'm not bloated. Like all these little things that they had written off as, oh, this is just me, my body, my life, my age, whatever. Yeah, this is just what it is. And they had came to accept it. And most of them would have literally said like, oh no, we eat super healthy. Oh no, we're super healthy. Oh, we live the perfect lifestyle, right? And then like you peel back the layers and you're like, well, no, if you're experiencing that every day,

(...)

something is out of alignment.

(...)

And so for most fertility people, they're like, it's not a win until we're pregnant.

(...)

For me, I've come to like,

(...)

wins along the way. I love that. Are pain hits, but they're like places to information is happening. It's happening every single day. And that's gonna sustain them in so many ways for so long, right? Like these are the foundational elements that you need in place for like what you were saying before, that longevity, right? Like these are the things that get you prepared(...) to live longer.(...) And the child's health is better.(...) And there are now studies coming out about the epigenetics or the changes that are happening in the mom and dad that influence the future health of this baby.(...) So for me, I'm like, well, it's a triple win. Like mom gets better, dad gets better. Most of the time we have caught things that would have taken another 10 years to catch and would be worse if they took 10 years to catch. Right.

(...)

Like diabetes or heart disease or whatever. So if we can catch it early, we can transform it and transform their lives in a way that they sustain that change.

(...)

They're gonna be healthier 10 years from now and they will have affected their baby's lives.

(...)

And if that wasn't enough,

(...)

our reproductive future is actually, so my eggs, the eggs that I have in my ovaries were in my grandmother's womb.

(...)

So when my grandmother carried my mom,(...) she had the genetic material that would then become my ovaries.(...) What?

(...)

All right, this is for another day science class, okay?

(...)

Because I need to understand that. That is wild. Isn't it crazy? That is crazy. Every time I think about that, I'm like, oh, the transformation that's happening in lineages of people that I will never meet or see or they won't even know that they were influenced.(...) Wow, well look at the impact of that legacy, right? Wow, that's pretty amazing. That's pretty, pretty amazing.

(...)

(Laughing)

(...)

I absolutely love that story. It's so inspiring, and just it...

(...)

It's always so much more special when you're affecting people's lives in this way, right? Like the impact, like you said, it's generational. It's...(...) You're changing people's lives in ways that they could not even imagine possible. So that's a beautiful thing. So I'm sure we are gonna dive into that and so much more going forward. I have questions for you. Yeah, we might skip the surface, right? But I think for us, we are looking to talk about any and all the things that pertain to life and our experiences collectively, like not just ours personally, but ours as a collective.

(...)

Personally, in relationships with children.

(...)

Parenting. Parenting. And work-wise, balancing it all, which I like to call integration. I don't think balance is possible in that respect, but yeah, so much more to talk about. So much more to talk about. I can't wait. This has been so nourishing,

(Music)