Mixed-Race Relationships, Parenthood, Culture, Family & Identity

Get ready for real and raw discussions as we dive into navigating mixed-race relationships and motherhood to the intersections of our lives, money, and so much more.

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Oh,(...) every sick you guys.

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You've been talking.

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Yes,(...) please. No, I'm not. I, you know, I've been listening to every episode that you guys have. And the one thing that I said, and I told this to my wife is you guys are very authentic. And I don't think that a lot of podcasts have that. Everybody wants to come out looking like perfection is the name of the game. Right. And you guys go, Nope, this is my truth. This is what I'm going to talk about.(...) It's, it's very, very, very raw. And I'm just like, is this.

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Question, Maggie, because again, when do you think about blending relationships and stuff? There's not, right. There's not something that we just say, let me just put this out there. Right. Even in relationships, it's you're not even known about until all of a sudden you're engaged.

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That's the discussion. And I'm always like, like to listen to you two is very rare because there is no hiding anything. This is, let's put it out there. Let people kind of judge for themselves. And it's not in a negative competition because I thought you guys thought that it was negative. Like I was coming at it. I'm sorry. This is what people should talk about. This is what people should be.

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(Inaudible) I wanted to do, I know what I'm saying. This is a mouth we will.

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Do you know enough blending relationship to me is just so funny because it's just turning. I'm kind of knelt together to completely separate by similar cultures. Right. I'm from Ghana. Everybody knows Walter is a Dalian.(...) If I could, I would warm my socket gear and everything. Like that's, that's why I'm very proud of that. And my wife is South Indian. And that's another situation where she has her own culture, like the way everybody has siblings and food, very different foods.

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The way they think, the way I see her family act toward each other, the way my family asked. And trying to put that together, I think is probably harder than what I went through when I went to residency. Where?

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Because there isn't, there's no script, right? Just like this, you just decide, okay, this is going the right direction. I feel comfortable with you. I feel happy with you. Let's make it happen.(...) And then long ago, you guys, kids,(...) so there's a lot of things that happened that I'm just kind of like,(...) I'm in here. And then you look up at seven, eight years later, you just sit there and go, okay. Okay. We've had a lot going on. Yeah. Ups and down.(...) You're trying to figure out how this is going to work. And this is how it's going to continue because you're all, you change, you're growing. You try to figure everything with it.

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Okay. Well, so I was in, so I grew up in, I was born in down in West Africa.(...) What grew up in the South South area.

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Yeah, I was eight years old. Okay.

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Yeah. So my brother actually was born in the US. My, so there's four boys. So let's put it down with this. Four boys. My, the second oldest Alvin, he was born in the US, but then my parents brought him over to Ghana.(...) Okay. When they were in Ghana, basically my mom left him with my grandmother. So my grandmother raised me from age four until my brother came when I was six.

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So my mother gets dropped off and I'm like, who's this?

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Nope.

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And it was a big deal. Oh, wow.

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No, do you have a brother? Like if one of those,

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I know. And so that's how I'm like, and then he comes and I'm like, what am I supposed to do with this?

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I think the child, I have my cousins there, you know, so we're excited. I'm that life is going on. I have my, you know, my cousins and we're good. And then all of a sudden I have a brother.

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Fast to me.

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Fast forward. I'm eight. He's about two now. And then my mom and dad, basically could say, okay, well, it's time to come back to the, come to the US. Okay. I didn't want to go to the US because to me, I'm like, your place did be taken away from everything.

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But the way I have it, the way I am. And so my mom and dad were like, oh, he's coming to Ghana. And I was like, I'm not going. And my grandmother calls me while I was like, hey, he's not coming.

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And she was like, oh, God. And what's going to get him? And my grandma said, well, he wants me to come with him.

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, you know,: 2001

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And then, you know, it was my grandmother all living in a house and it was a three bedroom place.(...) Right. And all my brothers coming and my other brother had come and we're just all in the house. And so then it was kind of like, very, very crowded, very, very crowded, you know? So grow up in Philly area, then I couldn't wait to get out of the ferry. My parents are very strict. But you're not going to sleepovers, you're not going to parties.

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First chance I get to, I'm out. I'm gone. I'm in, I'm going, how far can I go away from film? And it happened that it was Pittsburgh. I didn't even know about Pittsburgh. I was, they were like, oh, well, there's a school at the University of Pittsburgh. And I said, I'll go.

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Yeah. Yeah.(...) And so I'm like, I'm going. And so then sure enough, I get there in the first semester of the mess. I'm, hey, I'm enjoying life. I never, never, I've never done anything like that. I mean, let me tell you, first semester I'm drinking, you know, I mean, I'm like, this is it. I'm just kind of embarrassed. The party life strength that I ever had that I actually got drunk was that Mike's heart, London A.

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Yeah. It was a very simple, like you linked it back to it now, but it was so good. And then, you know, by first semester, I was telling the story to like some kids that I mentored.(...) It's not how you start first semester. First I get my report card and I bad blow back home. You mark for fun. And I have a two, three GPA. So, and I want to see that. Yeah. So I'm a little smart. It's a face

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(Blank Audio)(...) Funny because then after I come back, I'm like, my mentor actually now, Gregory Allen, shout out to Gregory. He was basically, he sat me down. He was also my counselor,(...) right? Because now I'm in trouble, like you want to graduate or not, kind of. So he goes, do you want to go to dental school or not? And I said, yeah, do you want to get your shit together? And I was like, what do you mean? He said, do you want to get in or not? And he said, it's gonna get harder. So he basically put me on this trunk, like he had to retake this test for that failed biology. Now again, when you're in the medical field, biology is kind of important to know for it. I'm in school, school because of my life. I'm in dental school. I'm excited. I'm like everything down really.(...) So then I get to residency. I'm doing my specialty training and my wife now is also resident. At the time,(...) I just saw her and I was like, okay, who's that?

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Luckily, she had friends that kind of had fun mutual friends. So I was like, hey, what's going on? Oh, well, no, she's in a relationship. And I was like, okay. But that didn't stop. Every time we go out, you know, having huge drinks, that liquid courage comes into play and I'm like, what's going on with you and your boyfriend?

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Yeah. Is he a doctor? Is he a doctor?

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He's not a doctor.

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Week, you know what I mean? I've always done and then it wasn't actually, so she's there for you here. It wasn't until the last two or three weeks that she's broken off. I finally, I'm out of relationship. Went in when, you know, she was in and it didn't last. So I get out of relationship.(...) She's out of relationship in this two weeks and we finally connect. And she gave me chime, but vitally horrible idea.

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We were hanging out one night and she's like, oh, you know, you can come hang out at my place. We'll watch a movie. And I think it was, how was that movie with, it was the tiger in a boat.

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All right. I want to see that movie. I just want to. And also, I love them. We should go. We should go watch that happen together.

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I use her. Then how do you know she does this? But I use her friends to get information and they will go. She was.

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She didn't see my brother's dogs. She loves animals, loves dogs. And I tried to basically bring to hang out with her by saying, hey, I have a brother's dog that you don't hang out. You might not see the dog again. And he's like, all right, fine. I'll come hang out.

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She was beautiful. She was just like her and I watched that I am on single music. So I looked like slow jam R&B. Like, that's my vibe. And so she liked that too.(...) And I was like, wait a minute. And then, you know, there were time. I remember one time we went into my clinical base and I was listening to music. She came to the bill. Hey, I'm looking for so and so. And I was like, oh, I'm listening to this. You want to listen to this? And I think it was Maxwell's, a woman's work. And I was like, no, listen to the way he talks about this. I'm breaking it down. And we spent an hour me just breaking down different slow jam. And I was like, what would it be right now? And I said, I bet you I got a song. And she was like, what? I said, no, tell me how you feel. And then she tells me, I got this song. I started breaking it down.

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Like, we connected on music. And I think that was the one thing that really went okay. Despite everything else that we don't know, but kept different. That music vibe was what we kind of connected on. So that was what triggered me to go, oh, this girl is it. This teen sees all.

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So no.

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Yeah, I just knew I liked it because there wasn't anybody that I've ever really vied with when it came to music like that. Okay.

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Yeah, I've never five anybody when it comes to music and instead is.

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Yeah, like.

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Right. Yeah, my one of my best friends, Gandhi, he thought.

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He is the one to put me on like, you know, like our brain, like, you know,(...) different slow jams. So back.

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And so him and I thought, no, but we used it to like, just think you were soon.(...) We thought we were like, we'll kill the game. You know what I mean?(...) What? Tell us. We were that's that's what little from low Marvy gave me real quick. That's perfect.

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And so but she actually felt that she has felt that vibe. So I was so called that she sees also because all the corneas that I now look back and think of a cool as I think in it actually worked out.

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We had two weeks to try to get together and it was kind of like, okay, well you leave and okay, I'm still here for another year. So when we went when she left to come to Houston was when kind of spoken.(...) Touching we go on trips to stuff. Yeah, but.

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No, no, don't be my I'm talking about like so she so now we say, hey, after

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two.

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te and anybody knows me knows: 1030

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I'm staying up late. We're talking and then we just got really close and then I had a friend that was getting married in Seattle. So I was like, hey, want to go to this wedding with me? He said,(...) it would travel.(...) What I didn't know was she wasn't telling Houston her family.

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I'm in Pittsburgh, but she wasn't telling anybody. Well, I'm going to Seattle with Walter. It was just, oh, I'm born on a trip. Yeah.

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Exactly. It wasn't that then.

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It were we're talking.

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You know, she worked in the day. So for me, there was no like, oh, well, let me see your family because by telling me you would connect. It was late. Mm hmm.(...) Somebody's sleeping or they're not, you know, I know it's available. I know it's available. I know it's available. I know it's available. And on weekends we'd be this.

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But he knew and of course my other brothers knew. Okay.

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But for me,(...) it's always unless it's serious, mom's doesn't do that. Okay.

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That's a rule that I think all, I mean, myself, my brothers, we've all kind of thought today because once your mom knows, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. That's a rule that I think all of us just thought today because once your mom knows. It's not funny that that's exactly how it is in the culture. Yes. That connection was there. It was kind of like, yeah, we don't say anything really to the family, but to me I felt like siblings worry somebody to need to know.

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It's not funny that you're just not going to do it. It's not funny that you're just not going to do it. I mean, I think it's a rule that was just like, you know, it's not funny that you're just not going to do it. But I think that's how it was. I knew just that. Okay. Cool. He's dope. All right. Moving on. Didn't think.

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But it was this from what I remember. And again, this is my memory. So forgive me. But no one really knew. Right. No one really knew.

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Her friend. Brand new best friend knew, but that was it. That was it. That was.

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It was on. Okay. Yeah. And I think after a while you kind of start feeling on the way.

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Right. So it became evident, I think on the Seattle trip, because I was like, Oh man, maybe next time I can come choose to. And I could hang out with the assistant that he had a little kid. Or she's, I think she was pregnant or I had a kid. And so then it became like, Oh, well, maybe I can hang out. And then it just kind of got weird.

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I just changed. Yeah.

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Then I said, all right, I'm going to let it go. And I think a month or two later, Dennis started bothering me. And I was like, Oh, okay. And I was like, Oh, okay. And then I started to feel like, Oh, okay. And then I just kind of like, wait a minute. Like no one knows besides like what Frank. Please.

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Right.

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One. And biases, racist biases had existed because at Pittsburgh, I dated a white girl and her family lived like literally 45 minutes outside of the city of Pittsburgh. You're in the country.

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So for me, I'm like, I get it. Right. You no matter who you are, do you see the skin color?

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Turned out, you can't give it up.(...) You know, it's not going to ask more. I can do like, I'm not some guy. There's not a thing that you wrong or anything. So my mind is I'm a good guy. You know, I've done well, educationally. So what's the problem? Okay.(...) Right. The skin color is the. And so for me, when I was dating that girl, like she was like, Oh, well, don't let it bother you. Did not. But after a while, it does bother me. Right. And it puts a rift in the situation. And I'm like, Oh, I'm not talking to her. Right. So now I'm here and I'm going, okay, well, no one knows about me. And the first time I'm thinking, okay, well, maybe it's just like, um, cultural. She doesn't want it to be anything. But once we get serious, then.

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The family will know.

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Yeah. I think you asked that question, but you don't want to push it. Yeah. You don't want to push it. Oh, I asked, but I didn't push it. Right. I didn't push it because I don't want to be that guy that's kind of making a big deal out of something that may not be at least in my mind. I'm like, let me try to respect the culture enough to know that. Hey, maybe this is just how the, this is how they are. Maybe they don't have a close relationship. Right. Maybe she's not that she doesn't have a close relationship with her family enough to tell them these things. Right. So I'm like, let me just hold back. Let me hold back. But then as they got more serious as I'm about to move down to Houston. Let's talk again.

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So in between the funny things in between that year, we would, she would break it off because she's like, okay, you know what? This is getting to the point where I just don't know if I feel comfortable with talent family and you're pushing it. So then I'll basically back off and then she'd break it off and then we would connect again and she'd break it up. And we can connect. So kind of get to the point where I don't want to push it. I don't want to push it. I don't want to push it. I don't want to push it. I don't want to push it. I don't want to push it. I don't want to push it. So kind of kept going back and forth. Does that make sense? And of course, you know, I thought first, I didn't deal with this. Like, just like there's something more to this. Right. And of course you have to, you grow up and you realize that you have to get past your own ego.(...) And so for me, I was like, let me just get past my own ego because maybe it's me pushing too hard.

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But here's the question. Is it excusable?

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Right?

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Do you what I'm saying? Yeah. Right. (Noise)

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Yeah, not everybody has your kind of, I don't wanna call it head strong mentality, but it is, that's what it is, right?

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And I think that that's the problem. That wasn't the case. My wife is not that kind of like. Yeah.

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Well, here's the question. So what is it a responsibility of the person? Meaning like, for example, the Indian side. To say, hey, I'm gonna confront my parents about this because this is my decision. Because I've noticed in Indian culture, it's very much of your parents are right. You don't wanna disappoint them. And there's this level of guilt that I feel like a lot of Indian have put on.(...) Yep. Right? And so then for me, I'm like, well, so am I supposed to push her towards that decision? Or did they have to push themselves to? (Blank Audio)

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You know what I noticed, and I'll just speak for myself, is you don't want to come across insensitive to someone's culture.

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That's what I noticed. And I remember just going like, all right, just give her some time. Maybe he's different because for me, if I have an issue, and let's just have an issue with my mom.

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Mom, hey, this is the problem. Let's resolve it. And it's been like that for a long time. But I'm also the oldest. So in my mind, I'm thinking that, okay, cuz my dad passed away. So then I became that, okay, now I'm basically kind of like the head of the household, right? So that mindset is always been there, right? My wife is youngest.

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(Laugh) So that mindset may not necessarily be there. (Blank Audio)

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Well, do you think that there's a level of fairness or unfair practice, meaning that how long do you wait? You're basically putting your life kind of what and like a stay still so

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that they can make this decision to become all of a sudden courageous?

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(Laugh) About a decision that you, you're like, well, (Blank Audio) Well, I get it exactly and that's something that looking back, I used to just sit here and go,(...) should I have stuck? I mean, now,(...) we have two wonderful kids and I'm very- You're way passed by. Yeah. Yeah, but if anybody's listening and are at this point, how long did they wait?

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I'm gonna say I disagree and the ruling of why I say this because I've seen, and I've been friends with Indians who once they got married, they have that same mindset of, well, no, all of my kids to marry Indian. And they're our age. (Blank Audio) (Blank Audio) You would think that being westernized.(...) (Blank Audio) (Blank Audio) (Blank Audio)

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Listening to you now makes you go, okay, so why go through the struggle?

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Well, the easy route would be, hey, you understand what I'm saying, the jokes that I'm telling, the food that I'm eating, all that does not need to be explained, right? So why, everybody's listening, they're thinking this up, you're right. So why would I need both of you to do all this stuff, right? And especially if you're not the one that's holding up the brakes.(...) And I think that's a discussion that we need, but the other person really needs, like you said, to hold, this is me, this is my fault. And I'm the one holding this relationship, but a lot of people don't do this.(...) (Blank Audio)

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From what I know of Toronto too, there's also modest sections, like for example, Brampton, they call it Browntown, because that's where a lot of the- (Crosstalk)

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So you're doing this thing within, is this that you're not so overtly out there, right? You say, no, well, we're gonna live here. (Blank Audio)

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And that's what I was saying. So it's still, everybody falls down, what feels safe and comfortable.

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Because whenever,(...) where we live in Houston, where I see a lot of people I live, it's definitely very much about melting pot. (Blank Audio) Funny thing is you still do see a lot of like, okay, well, we're all Indians, we're all gonna hang out here and talk to each other. And the funniest thing is I see it at the bus stop. It's the funniest thing to watch, because when I'm driving by the bus stop, I literally see the Indian families over here, the Asian families over here, and you know, we all live in the same neighborhood. But I see them all talking to each other, kind of like,(...) I don't think it's purpose, I just think it's okay, you're Indian, I'm Indian, let's have a conversation, and then, oh, here's the white families, they're having a conversation over here. And one day I wanna take a picture of this show, because then look at it and not go, so this is happening, but it's so. (Blank Audio)

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Being malice, I just think that's what it feels like. (Blank Audio)

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I would actually start off probably talking to the black people, I would. I would start off by talking to them, but then the funny thing is because my wife is Indian, and my kids are both. Right, of course, you can end up talking to whoever. Even when I'm at work, and I have like an Indian patient, I love bringing up my wife, because it makes them comfortable. Mm-hm. I'm like, oh yeah, my wife does do that, but it makes them comfortable. Yeah, I believe that them knowing that, oh, well, he's American. (Blank Audio)

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But no, absolutely, but I do that with everybody, right? I went to Okinawa, Japan, my buddy was staying there. Let me find a Japanese patient, and I wanna make that connection. (Blank Audio)

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(Blank Audio) (Blank Audio) We talk to you, that's how they look at me, and let me not go into a place with my husband and my wife. (Blank Audio) (Blank Audio)

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sitting on the bench and they're facing up and you could see their eye hole like, "I'm trying to figure it out."

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My son pretty much is black, right? And they're just looking at us, figure it out. They are staring so hard. My parents are watching them. I'm like, "You can see what's happening here?" Just trying to piece it all together. And a lot of times I find that they get judged because my kids are black.

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I'm like, "Dindya."(...) So then that's the automatic assumption. Most of my life people have assumed that I'm West Indian, which is I think also why being with a black person doesn't feel as distant. But my parents, 100%, they get the looks and they get the kind of like, "You like that?" "You like that?" This is partying.

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And this Punjabi family, I took a video of them. They were staring so hard.

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They were like, "You realize that you guys stare a lot."

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But the fun thing is when my kids stare, I'm like, "Okay, that's the thing."

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Society is funny because they love it. Because that combination...

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So society loves it. Oh my God, your kids are beautiful.

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The hair.

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The funny thing is I remembered before we had kids, it was trying to... If you could get the friends of the parents to be pretty, you were in. Now with kids, I feel like that is kind of like the end for everybody.(...) It's like everybody accepts it. That other people accept it because it's like, "Oh wow, they have kids." "Oh, the kids are wonderful."

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It's like, "How do you hate kids?" And I think that's what is kind of like the overall equalizer is the kids. Without kids, I felt like the discussion would still be there. But with kids, "Oh man, look at these kids."

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It's interesting in a way that everybody's is marvellous... So... It feels feel...

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Wow, that's crazy. (Blank Audio)

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Well, okay, so maybe not make decisions like stay in relationship, not stay in relationship, but the way you interact and the way you act, I think that's- And a lot of comfort. That's influenced by society. And I remember an episode where you guys talked about your hair and you went one direction because of all the things that you had learned, right? That wasn't something that was innate, that was a societal discussion. That was something that you had learned in society that you were in, right? Was it Rastafarian? Right? And you see what I'm saying? And so that did change the way you acted and thought. And we will always change it as we grow, right? Our personalities will change it. Sure. Yeah. But I do believe societal acceptance is somewhat the undertone of everything that we do. I really believe it. I really believe it. It's the final decision that's up to us, right? If it was not, if we cared about society, I don't believe that you'd be, me and my wife would be together. Because she has such a strong pull that she had to kind of get past this, right? But the funny thing in society did help us, because their friends, her parents' friends met me and was like, he's a good guy.(...) And that made it easier. Why?(...) Absolutely. It wasn't because my wife was going back for it. It was, okay, well, no. (Blank Audio)

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An Indian abroad spreading the big, 179, the communal of who? (Blank Audio)

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